Ill start of saying i know how to mesure the roll center but im not sure where im trying to go or how to exactly. Yeah! The images used are taken from the iRacing Super Late Model setup screen. Aug 24th 2005. Street Stock; Other; Best Selling. Wheel Covers. 321. 507-386-3930. The preferred way to adjust the cross weight is by moving weight around. Sliding the MC left and to the inside of the turn makes the suspension softer. Of the other two, camber is well-recognized, but for all intents and purposes, the least-understood . LIT-A950700006 80249N Ford F-150 LightningHarley HE. I think if I had the opportunity I could make the 4-link work on asphalt using a similar set-up that I used on dirt. We run on a semi flat 1/2 mile asphalt track. I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are on what it would take to allow the metric cars to be competitive without giving them too much. Street Stock Dirt Oval Racing - All the dirt, clay and pavement-racing excitement in a 1:10 scale RTR. I ran a street stock/sportsman from 1995 to 2000 with a metric frame. Leaf springs are important when towing heavy objects.Bear with me here, this digs a little deeper into how leaf spring suspensions work. If the car feels loose on corner entry, lower the left track bar. lowers are stock location on frame. For warmer track temperatures, you are going to need to tighten the car. But if you cant 11 inchers is all you can go. Afco Racing Products. Poorboy, I think you're exactly right. Hobby Stock - (USRA/IMCA TYPE) Street Stock - (WISSOTA TYPE) Stock Car - (USRA/IMCA TYPE) It seems like it is the modern buzzword for describing the goals of chassis setup. 2,224. The amount of resistance is directly related to the degree of side view angle we put in our control arms and the amount of brake force used. It also doe, Fighting Fungal Diseases on Plants - Exploring the Use of Copper, Daconil & Copper Fungicides, The use of copper to fight plant diseases is an intriguing concept that has been around for some time. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Your email address will not be published. I was wondering if anyone out there had any experience circle track racing a mopar unibody. This will loosen the car, and that's undesirable, especially on dirt. 30 day Money Back Guarantee!- If you don't learn something that helps you go faster, email me and I will refund 100% of your money back. Next is engine set back if allowed. Brake bias influence can be easily determined by entering the corner with medium to heavy braking first and then entering with light braking to see if there is a difference. If the car feels tight on corner exit, raise the right track bar. If we have a top view difference in alignment between the transmission output shaft and the pinion shaft and they are parallel, then the angle to the driveshaft created by that misalignment might be sufficient to provide the needed angular differential needed for loading the U-joint bearings and reducing negative harmonics. Additionally, modern pennies are only 2.5% copper, so older pennies should be used instead for better results. And I do agree weight jacks don't cost much, sure is alot easier to do the same thing we were doing with hidden couplers and shims . Metrics can be competitive IF they are permitted to address their four-point rear suspension problems. Note the new cross weight and the ride heights. So, it might be the best for asphalt racing to run as low as possible or as much as the rules allow to create a lower center of gravity. Chassis Tuning 101 Murfdogg. I have always believed in priorities because you can make gains faster when you solve the high priorities problems first. After payment you will be directed to a download page. 5. Caster is best described as a vertical line that runs through the 2 pivot points in your car or trucks suspension. LOL. Did they allow weight jacks? Most of the ideas in this book are perfectly legal for any rule book. Too low a ride height could cause the car to bottom out. As each season comes along, our knowledge of what we need and desire grows. For the Big Bar, Soft Spring setups, teams often introduce Pro-dive into the left front suspension to encourage rapid dive on entry to get the left front down quickly. Conversely, if the car feels tight throughout the corner, raise both track bars. Dial In Your Metric. Check your PM's. You might try a little trail braking. We also discuss where we want the roll cente. If one corner of the car is shocked stiff, then as that corner desires to move in compression, more load will be retained by that corner as well as the opposite diagonal corner of the car during the compression cycle only. This is because of the construction using angled, from a top view, arms that converge to points called instant centers. First of all, the design is intended to solve several problems. I'm thinking about building a B Body for dirt track racing. Strictly asphalt street stocks and parts. Turn the wheels to the left all the way, make a mark with the steering wheel, now count the turns it takes to go to full lock the opposite direction. Subtle changes often go unnoticed, especially when they're hard to see without jacking the car up and crawling underneath. the force of air. Home. Bilstein Stock Car Shock Package Fits the popular metric chassis (4) Front shocks (3) Rear Shocks Stock Mount front and rear Additional Features Nitrogen Gas . Brian Wise. The cross weight adjustments should work on all dirt cars except the Sprint Cars. The car madracing 19 has for sale has all of these things done to it. We can add the stiffer bushings to most of the points, but leave several, one at the top and one at the bottom, as a rubber bushing to absorb the torque created in roll. Another gardener is pla, Get Free Seeds & Taste the Delicious Flavor of Estler's Mortgage Lifter with Edweather's Generous Offer, Estler's Mortgage Lifter is an heirloom tomato variety developed by William Estler in the mid-1920s. so I ran a .185 valving. Street Stock. Raising the rear of the lower links also lowers the rear RC, although in reality this is very hard to do because the links are already mounted close to the rearend axle housing. This tape If the car feels loose on corner entry, lower the left track bar. March 27, 2015. This develops more crossweight as the car squats on acceleration. They should also be able to run any panhard bar. I think everyone agrees that the old leaf spring cars (Camaros and Novas) are becoming harder and harder to find. how to adjust iRacing Sprint Car cross weight, go here. I once drove a metric on both dirt and asphalt. Cra bomber, turbo ,etc. Street Stock Tech. The proper steps to do this are outlined below. Download the Jet Mod Scale & Setup Sheet Here! Yes, I get inquiries about how to apply the BBSS setups to both of these types of cars. They have all kinds of articles and how to write ups on what to do with a metric four link to make it work better, how to use things like bump stops, progressive springs, gas shocks, sliding ballast, to make a car faster and more drivable. These cars drive off the left rear more to keep them from being to loose, that is why you are starting to see the LF coming off the racetrack, it takes proper weight placement, rear bushing selection, spring choice, and ride heights to make it have a lot of traction but not be a three wheel out of control mess. Wonder how fast it would be if I changed the locations. We have done a lot with the front roll center and cant wait to see how it does, after that, i found some legal stuff for the rear that we will try. Drag the brake lightly as you enter the corner. Nick and I agree on something! That move took this design to the next level. Free . Vintage/Classic/Historical Engine Tech, 3V Performance Engine & Valve train Development, Race Cars & Parts - For Sale or Wanted, Asphalt circle track metric GM 4-link questions, Re: Asphalt circle track metric GM 4-link questions, https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/r ss.326355/. 5. RAceman. Caster. Last couple of years I ran the car we just used tubular ones with rod ends because it was legal and easier. Setup Tips: These tips are for an independent a-arm front suspension and 3-link rear suspension type of car, but may apply to other types of suspensions as well. I would suggest going to www,4m.net to the tech board. If we can lower the Metric RC to 13 inches, we would increase the moment arm length in the rear to 4.5 inches and that's a huge improvement in compliance. jp. I don't really encourage that method. LIT-718 80291 1997 - 2004 Mustang Radiator. In the last article, I talked about the uses of toe and how it affects both drivability and front-end dynamics. I'm not saying this is not important to some degree, but on short tracks I would stress that aero downforce is over-rated in most cases. Most Metric cars I've evaluated have rear RC's up around 14.5 inches off the ground. It's that time of year again when gardeners all over the world are planning what to grow in their gardens. LIT-721 80293NDP 2009-2015 Cadillac CTS-V HE. But the most useful rear steer will only occur on acceleration and not at mid-turn. Posted October 3, 2005. Balance is spoken of in all types of motorsports these days, even F1. I also was involved with beta testing for NASCAR Racing Simulation Games. As the car is lowered, the rear RC will generally move down. So, we must make due and set up these cars the best we can. Customer is to bring a clean non-sandblasted frame when picking up the chassis. 70030. My truck has weight jacks and a stock 4 link. If the LR tire is too cool, then the RR spring is too stiff. We must develop ways to create more rear traction on acceleration only. I understand not wanting to share to much especially if your a racer, but who or where else can I gain info on this? Ive made the brackets on the rear housing (lowers) longer with trailing arm mounts that have 3 . I also vote for weight jackers in ALL SS or Sportsman level cars simply because they're so cheap and make life so much easier for the teams. For many gardeners, it starts with tomatoes. Anything helps when u trying to figure out a starting point.thanks for the input i will try some of this and see how it works i have raced some before mostly mini stocks. document.write("" + "") A very soft spring would need more compression rate and less rebound rate, whereas a stiff spring would need a lot of rebound rate and much less compression rate. There's a happy medium between running just the right soft right rear and going too soft. You must try to determine if your setup is balanced and then if not, make the necessary changes to bring it into a balanced state. The dynamics of the moment center and the effects of camber change have been explained before. THAT ARE CHEAP AND APPEAR STOCK. Excessive front toe in will make a car turn into a corner quicker, & may create a loose condition. men need when considering these types of changes. I would get the metric arms from Speedway P-N 910-31134-RH (LH) they are 8.0 and 8.5 long. The pad is best used on IMCA style modifieds, the fronts of "Outlaw" style modifieds, drag racing . These cars were meant to ride down the road nice not be fast on dirt, so you have to redo all of the mounts, change the length of the trailing arms, use hiems and/or rubber bushings or even spring loaded trailing arms to build traction. Competitions are held on oval tracks . They arent usually as good at spotting little modifications to every single part of the suspension. Why Lower The Rear RC? Add to Cart. We do not want to try to solve turn entry problems with the brake bias, we only need to make sure the car stays neutral in handling when the brakes are applied. Since mustangs have a similar rear suspension would these same mods work? We make it with either steel panels, or aluminium panels. If you find that the left rear is the coolest tire on the car, then you have a setup balance problem where the rear is too stiff. Required fields are marked *. My name is Rodney Arndt, I have an associates degree in automotive technology. Thank You, DreamRacing.com offers a chance to go racing That's why I asked about weight jacks in the original post. If you have any problem with the download, just email me, and I will email or Facebook you your file. Nick might be a better theory guy but I don't think that just adding a panhard bar will get you there. . Setup Tips for Metric on asphalt racecheep. See auction date, current bid, equipment specs, and seller information for each lot. I never got to the experimenting stage on asphalt. If he was at the track and saw the car run he would know that it worked ( by the way it also worked at Eriez ). My Metric front end setup. Is this why Im wearing out the right front? I think I'll make a proposal along these lines. If the car feels as if it wants to break loose under throttle in the center or on corner exit, or drive off the right rear wheel (wheel spin), increase the cross weight. Anderson , IN. Go here but read before you post..lol. X-Y-G METRIC STREET STOCK / SPORTSMAN HEADQUARTERs 704-784-5353. Reply #9 - 05/01/09 at 8:00pm. I remember qualifying times in the 19.6 to 19.7 range. Yes, outright violations are penalized, but creative interpretations or improvements in area that have no specific rule usually get the Don't bring that backnext week penalty. Prices listed are with a frame swap option. Fox80. Page 1 of 1. I never felt good about cheating but when everyone does you need an even playing field. Those cars are coming around becoming competitive. JEFFREYS Fabrication is coming soon!!! How to Open the Setups. Splash = 2-3 gallons, 1/2 can = 5-6 gallons, 1 can = 11-12 gallons, 1 1/2 cans = 17-18 gallons, 2 cans = full tank. Ive read alot of stuff, some of it usefull some of it crazy. I measured ours at close to 20". Thanks g dirt i will try that.im not totaly done with car yet just try to get ideas thanks, you are real close to what guys are running, but g is right, scale the car, i run leaf springs or i would tell you what i was running. I'd think that without them you'd at the very least need to allow some sort of spring adjuster. I will post as I no longer race, the biggest thing is the angle of the upper and lower control arms in the rear, you need to understand roll center and instant center to be able to adjust it correctly. is applied to the front bumper & air dam of the car covering the openings for air flow to the various components that are cooled through Love it when people explain why somethings done rather than just saying this is how its done., Thank you Jeff! As for stock arms they worked just fine ,and didn't cost anything. Probably to the guys that are beating you! Smaller gains can come later on after the more important aspects of setup are resolved. Going way back I remember running a early 70's Nova in the street stock division at the old Nazareth 1/2 mile dirt track in the early 80's. Damn, they were some wild nights up there. Shocks It might help to leave it unattached on ovals. If you use no brakes you can wear the right front. We are at a crossroads at this point in time with setup technology in asphalt racing. Posted August 22, 2005. On the metric chassis the roll centers, from what I understand are mainly influenced by ride height, because we can't change control arms ect. Your statement that the 3-link is what the metrics needed to level the playing field is the type of feedback that tech. As these pads get hot, they offer more friction, and still work well at over 1000 degrees. "ULTIMATE" Racing Car Chassis Setup Guide and Tutorial. Thank you, that forum is a wealth of information. Street Stock Setups - Custom iRacing Setups and Paints for dirt oval and asphalt oval cars. Add to Cart. At some point, we take in enough information to allow us to avoid the mistakes of the past and get ahead of the curve in setting up our asphalt cars. Ackermann is easily checked by using a laser system or strings. Has boxed lowers, adjustable uppers , stock springs and shock. If the car is tight under throttle, or driving off the left rear, invert the spring perch offset adjustment procedure above. Am I correct that you would reattach the sway bar after making the perch adjustments? . The driveshaft doesn't know which view these angles are resulting from, just that they are equal and opposite. 5. RacelineCentral.com All Rights Reserved, NASCAR 2K3 Racing Season Garage 101 Guide Download, Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 2.5. If all of these issues are evaluated and corrected, then you can move on. . We are only talking about a difference of 0.040- to 0.060-inch, but that is enough to help stabilize our car on exit and provide added bite. SUCH AS SPRINGS, SHOCKS, SWAYBARS ETC. Flat Tracks: On an asphalt car, utilizing slightly stiffer rebound on the left side, while softening the rebound on the right side, will generally enhance the handling of the car. Happy New Year. My old car had a stock frame front to back with just the suspension pick-up points changed, it took a lot of trial and error over three years to get a good baseline for most tracks. 10. ANYBODY KNOW OF ANY STREET STOCK RACING CHEATS/TIPS. Once you have evaluated all of the above and feel fairly confident that the car is set up correctly, you should then work to tune the transitions into and off of the corners with the shocks. Do not seek aero downforce at the expense of aero drag increase. The CCMS rules allow 3rd link and panhard bar. I talk to lots of racers representing every form of circle track racing in every region of the country and beyond. I will post as I no longer race, the biggest thing is the angle of the upper and lower control arms in the rear, you need to understand roll center and instant center to be able to adjust it correctly. Keep It Fast and Cheap. I would run either the pure stock or street stock class. 7. When the track is cooler, you may want to loosen the car some. Rear Geometry Administrator. To add weight to a given corner, raise the ride height at that corner or lower the ride height at an adjacent corner. Divide that in half for the center of the wheel. Every year, Jack asks drivers for input regarding rules changes for the following year. That's one thing I've really never understood about some street stock classes that don't allow weight jacks. S3 - Street Stock - USA $4.00; S3 - Street Stock - Lanier $4.00; S3 - Street Stock . I can understand not allowing alot of stuff from a cost perspective but weight jacks seem to be one of those things that are cheap to begin with and you end up spending 3 times as much money and alot more time trying to get the same result while complying with rules that don't allow them. Mod Four Tech. Try to at least get to 53% front and 53% left weight with out adding ballast behind the rear wheels. What Are Russet Mites? Here are what we consider to be the 10 most important areas of chassis setup with No. I always knew that chassis set up had to be based on some proven theory, but I could never find a book that could tell me what that theory was. I got a 1000 on ebay 150897831883 at like $5.00 I would do 1100 RF, 1000 LF, 225 LR and, 175 RR but that was on big chevelle or impala chassis. First, we don't want to restrict the movement of the arms too much. Grill tape is nothing more than duct tape. The metrics at THR are NOT competitive compared to the leaf cars. Tire Tools. It may take a few test sessions to help you determine your balance, but if you observe the indicators correctly, then tuning the car for dynamic balance can be done. Letting the metric cars run Camaro spindles would be a step in the right direction. Roll Center or Moment Center. Location:Austin, Tx. Contact Us. We run on street tires and can not move suspension mounts (viasably ) I won the championship last year with a car . Posted 5 weeks ago. On a three-link rear suspension you should have the front of your right-side control arm higher than the rear mount by 1/3 of the total amount it will travel in the turns. . Maybe if Billy would be more specific about how he made his stock setup work we could learn even more. The car will turn better and we will have more bite off the corners. Try to understand how aero downforce is created and then configure your car so that you take advantage of every area where you could produce more downforce. The less angle the better. This is our 1988 Monte Carlo Stock Appearing Body. LIT-A950700016 80275NDP Ford Mustang Cobra HE. This configuration is common in General Motors cars built in and around . You can try bigger adjustments if you cant tell much difference in the handling after you make smaller adjustments. See all 6 photos. Chassis Setup Docs Hyper Racing. The bottom line is that at mid-turn, each end will want to roll to its own degree of angle. Post Other competitors will offer you tips, but what works on their car may not work on yours and often they cant explain why something works for them, it just does. The influence of the location of the front MC can be compared to a sliding scale. Disconnect the sway bar and zero (unload) it. Most guys that are fast there are fast everywhere. Its a whole lot more driver and a whole lot less setup on dirt. A level panhard bar ( same mounting height on both sides) means force is vectored laterally to the tires. The set-up really planted the RR tire. Verndale, MN. I drove the #01 ss for two years and tried everything I could think of within the rules and it was a hard job to keep the car in control because of the binding of the rear suspension. Stretch Film Division. That energy has to go somewhere, (1st & 2nd law of thermodynamics) so it can either go into tires causing them to heat up lose grip and wear faster, or you can try to take up some of that heat up into the brakes where it will be dissipated on exit and down the straight. Stock chassis that has been: Boxed, second "inner" frame tube added, suspension pickup points doubled and gusseted, rear frame notch (for future, wider tires), cross braces at front, rear shocks, and rear of frame. A good handling car can make gobs of horsepower and hook it up. I haven't plotted it all out but four links, none of which are at the axis of rotation, would tend to fight each other as body rolls. 30 day Money Back Guarantee!- If you don't learn something that helps you go faster, email me and I will refund 100% of your money backAfter payment you will be directed to a download page. did desi arnaz jr have a stroke; moose tracks vs cow tracks ice cream That extra effort is what separates the front runners from the rest of the field. A slight amount of rear steer to the left has been shown to help provide more traction at the rear and bite off the corners where it is needed. the metric cars at THR are at a big disadvantage in terms of track width, ride height, and rear suspension but if they were to be able to use a third link and panhard bar they can be very competitive even without weight jacks. Its not necessary unless your own a road course. Pure Stock Tech. I can't tell you how many times I have refined the MC location in a car and had it totally change the way the car turned, for the better. Steering Geometry We ran the stock lowers but boxed them and put in better bushings if I recall correctly. Did not get DQ'd but after the race the promoter told him that too many other cars were complaining and he would not be able to run the car in that class. The overall work that a shock does is to resist the rebounding of the springs and control the speed of compression. The engine should always be aligned perpendicular to the rearend and/or parallel to the centerline of the car. Here are some recommendations. The message I get from those who have worked this trend for a sufficient number of years is one of the following two types: 1) a continuing and constant search for balance in the car and a loss of success on the track, or 2) a returning to the more conventional setups because they have experienced number 1 above. JP is that the car you wadded up and broke your leg? Always try to start with the track bars first. Stock cars using the metric-style four-link rear suspension usually need to do this just to achieve a balanced setup with the high rear moment centers in those cars. Even when clear rules exist, the track officials are often reluctant to enforce them. I noticed the camaros can arch or de arch springs. If we can raise the upper front link mounts, we can lower the rear RC by lowering the upper IC. The front moment center (MC) location plays a huge role in how the front end wants to work. But there is still some changes to be made from track to track. Over the years, most of the things that I have learned about racing, I've learned the hard way. Chassis. We even did pretty good with it in the THR LLM class back in `99. If the car's center of gravity was say 16.5 inches (around average for an asphalt car that has been lowered), there would only be a 2-inch moment arm to try to roll the car. 6 pt roll cage setup for easy in and out street use. By Bob Bolles, Circle Track Magazine . There are ways to do that without changing the handling at other points around the racetrack. Each setup has a life cycle or a time frame in which it will work before we run into a stopping point with it. The Antis Remember that drag is an important aspect of aero design. RacelineCentral is not responsible for the accuracy of this document, If you are an owner, sponsor, or mentioned here, Please feel free to contact us below for updating. Just about all the available setup options that you can adjust on a real WC car can be adjusted in the sim. We ran the car with a lot softer set up than that. I'm a former NASCAR short track driver and league administrator for SASCAR. If you want to know how to adjust iRacing Sprint Car cross weight, go here. Estler's Mortgage Lifter is ideal for growing in northern climates due to its ability to withstand cooler temperatures better than other varieties. It would be nice if we could change the rear suspension, I have done a lot of research on it and have found some info, there is just not a lot legally that can be done with it. Modified Cars for Sale IMCA Asphalt modified Setup Asphalt Modified Race Cars Asphalt Street Stock Setup Asphalt modified for Sale Asphalt modified Set Up The ULTIMATE Racing Car Chassis Setup Guide and . As you will gather from this book, setting up your car right and properly maintaining it is a lot of work. All customers interested in purchasing, repairing, or setting up a Howe-Eddy modified should contact Travis Eddy at Eddy Performance (989) 948-8005. It also seems hard to argue that the stock 4-link/metric cars have a hard time being competive in our SS/Sportsman classes where a stock suspension is mandated. It depends on your rule book and it's enforcement. Your email address will not be published. You need to locate the moment correctly, and the cambers . Not sure if there is a standard for metric cars but I havent found any specs on it. I wondered if a 3 link could be made to work well without them. As far as I know, all of the iRacing asphalt cars are adjusted the same way. Dirt Race Life is explaining how to draw out the front end on a race car and determine where the roll center is. sj_valley_dave wrote on 05/01/09 at 12:12pm: I spoke with Dave24 after last weekend, he dropped the fronts down to 700 LF and 800 RF and got the cross down to 45.8%, pulled the bolt out and floated the RR spring. It is a low acid tomato with a unique flavor that has been described as sweet, yet slightly tangy. Bilstein has put together the ultimate Street Stock / Factory Stock Shock Package. . by RonL Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:36 am, Post The use of softer front springs, larger sway bars, and big spring split in the rear has swept across the country for more than five years now with mixed results. Jul 25, 2011. The only component were worried about is Get it right or don't get it at all. So, we either lower the rear RC or soften the springs, especially the right rear spring, or preferably do both. There is one IC for the upper links and one for the lower links. Save these setup files to C:\Documents\iRacing\setups\dirtstreetstock\. As the rear end rotates on acceleration, the left wheel moves rearward more so than the right wheel, creating a slight amount of rear steer to the left. If we arrange our control arm angles, from a side view, for antidive, then as the car dives the upper BJ would move to the rear and the bottom BJ would move to the front. //-->. I used 13" springs with buckets welded in the frame on the rear.Car will be to high without buckets trying to use 13" springs.We used straight 6 valve shocks on the front and straight 5 valve shocks on the rear.Don't mess with split valve shocks if you are a beginner.this spring setup . If the car feels loose throughout the corner, lower both track bars evenly. The last time I drove that car I put a short third link (11 inches long) and a long panhard bar after that any adjustment I did to the car it did what it was supposed to do. Wheel Accessories. the radiator. You refering to dirt track racing correct? Adjust drag link accordingly, *unless something is bent, spindles, drag link, idler arms, etc. Adjustment Guide - Medieval Chassis. I ran a metric street stock at HMP for a number of years and was definitely not at a disadvantage. The setup we choose needs to be arranged so that the dynamics are balanced between the front and the rear suspensions. Johnny likes a softer feeling car, front and back. So, in most cases, we need to run a softer spring in the right rear. It must show a consistent gain in performance and a logical ideology to the bulk of race teams. 1 Min Read. View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage 02-25-2021, 09:09 AM. A high rear roll center causes a short moment arm in the rear suspension and will stiffen the rear suspension similar to installing very stiff springs.