And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. There was a lot of DNA evidence. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. So what those ranges. Sam Evans-Brown: You know the North America had a number of large predator species when humans first arrived in the continent. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. He says when youve got a mountain lion in town, its kinda obvious. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. And they asked me about the tail which I just did not remember that tail out of that whole experience. Patrick Tate: Exactly I was gonna bring that up juvenile male of. Pelosi story here we go. Information online ad an age student loans dawg. Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. Do they travel. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. I think that you probably are. So the whole media hype about how scary mountain lions are should should go away immediately and that would be that I think the major thrust of educating folks about these casualties vs.. Sam Evans-Brown: Sam go ahead. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. You know perhaps poke around where you saw it and see if you can find a track. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. So there's even debate about that very subject. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. New Hampshire Public Radio | Caller: Oh yeah. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. Oh you saw him online. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. Russ, from Sandwich (and Bedford) asks: In Sandwich New Hampshire, everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion. John. Rick van de Poll: Well education is the real important thrust of of what all of us do as biologists and Game Managers and to make sure that a things like what Sam was saying that in spite of what you believe the mountain lions will not eat your children they will not steal your pets from your backyard and they will not necessarily be seen by you unless you're extremely lucky. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. You don't know what's going on. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. But no proof was offered. Each person had their own copy and now it was identify the trees the species of tree matched. Patrick Tate: Okay. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020. Mountain lions ( Puma concolor) are one of the six native species of wild cats in North America. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. And here we're talking about in this situation we're talking about it migrated from the West. This is the exchange. Patrick Tate: If I could just say one thing. And Rick Van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. Thank you. Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. To date most of the pictures that have been sent in have been bobcats and other species Ive received pictures of house cats. That's the real story is they can't follow up on every one of these sightings. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. WMUR uLocal: On this trail cam video, an unidentified feline is spotted. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. Yeah 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago. You saw what you saw. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. Fish and Game then deny the evidence. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. No I saw a camel. 1,470 likes. About Lions. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. Contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. brings a lot of. They absolutely do. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. So so. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. Do we have native species that could have exhibited this type of behavior leaving leaving a deer carcass up in a tree. How far were you from this cat. Reports without physical evidence are not dismissed, however Fish and Game cannot verify a sighting report without physical evidence. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. Deer Bear Moose Grey Wolf Coyote Foxes Fisher Mountain Lion NH Wildlife History. If it's just in the middle of a greenfield you can't prove anything. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. And so a mountain lion is actually quite large right. And really whenever you hear tiny code and long rope like tale it's kind of hard to pin this sighting on any other creature rather than an outline or just nothing else really matches that description. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. We'll push great photos to the front page. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. The number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 so promised a discussion about conspiracy theories. Is that typically what was happening there. BRADFORD, N.H. - All that snow in parts of the Northeast has more than just kids jumping for winter joy. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. I mean they're a survivor. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. Patrick Tate: Yeah yeah. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. So what counts as verifiable evidence? If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. So I just throwing that out there it's interesting. We mentioned that one cat that was hit by a car where it has it that it was a male looking for me. Okay. Hunting is legal, but closely regulated by the state. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. Nicholas Handy can be reached at 924-7172 ext. There was no sign of it. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. Caller: It had just left that field and was out. So we tossed these terms around but really the term subspecies has been sort of redefined in our lifetimes. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. Verifiable pictures recorded by the observing person or a trail camera. There wasn't a distinct subspecies the North American mountain lion is all is all one species and then you can find a genetically distinct South American subspecies. I hope she's listening and she had spoke to a lot of different people ended up having a couple of sightings of her alone without sort of by accident. A lot of times. Its impossible to say, but I think the odds are pretty good that some of these sightings are legit. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. John is calling from Bennington. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. Have a photo. Rick van de Poll: 80 90. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. Patrick Tate: Nice talk to you too. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. Infinite Scroll Enabled. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. The American Lion The Saber tooth Tiger and this was the one that survived. Sam Evans-Brown: Certainly that is a thing I've heard but again you have to think of the incentives involved here. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. They were able to do all that by genetics. No that's a little bit outside the range. The Lions of New Hampshire: MD44 Links. And it's not really strong. Today, their range stretches from the Yukon Territory in Canada along the western coast of the United States, all the way to the Southern Andes in Chile. Some of the reports that I looked into that were actually on file at the local fish and game office were even from people who did not live locally. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. There's always been physical evidence to prove those situations like hair or fur scat hair prints pictures of the animal print scat hair. Its distinctive featurethe one that sets it apart from other North American wild catsis its tail, which is thick and often as long as its body. Thank you very much for listening. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. So what a neat experience. Can we go to the site. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. I would say that there's going to be the truth in here somewhere. Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. You need a permit to have that. From "History of New Hampshire Game and Furbearers" by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. Patrick Tate: And there's one other way to model that is the same animal. And they used to be this whole list of the different subspecies of mountain lion and it has since been reduced to just to the North American and the South American. I have one that's more elaborate than that. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. Peter Biello: Nice to be here. Maps of Trapping Take by Town 1994 to 2004. Think you've seen a mountain lion. So do they. So what I'm getting back is the verifying and confirming of evidence what that was not there. In my New Hampshire career I have written several, and seen at least 20, stories along the lines of "local person thinks they saw a mountain lion but there's no actual evidence aside from. But I was riding a mountain bike not far from my house. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. Lots of people have stories about them, people have them on their game cameras I mean its kind of a thing. And the cougar embodies that. And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. Post your sightings and NH photos here! Yeah I did. That's too big for Bobcat. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. Since 1917, Lions clubs have offered people the opportunity to give something back to their communities. JavaScript must be enabled for some features to display properly. Well they are the same. So so they're just a very resilient species and they're pretty they're pretty neat. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. List of Mountains in New Hampshire is a general list of mountains in New Hampshire, with elevation.This list includes many mountains in the White Mountains range that covers about a quarter of the state, as well as mountains outside of that range.. About Us Media Kit Calendar of Events Volunteer Visit Learn Events Membership Support Your Visit BUY TICKETS Know Before You Go Directions and Information Our Animals Live Animal Exhibit Trail Hours and Admission Calendar of Events Residents Report Mountain Lion Sighting By Elysia Rodriguez Published August 11, 2015 A southern New Hampshire neighborhood believes a mountain lion is roaming the woods near their homes. I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. There's no attraction. We speculate they dont want us to screw up tourism we dont know whats going on. Peter Biello: Let's talk to Ron and where Ron thanks very much for calling. So Michael follows with the question. You're on the air. Mike you're on the air. She is renowned for tracking. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. Caller: Absolutely. Let us know your story and share your photos. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. Patrick Tate: Yes. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. Why are there so many false positives? The tail leave is a giveaway but not everybody gets to see the tail. Want to report a Mountain Lion sighting in New Hampshire? for some excitement. "Of those three to five reports,. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. So it's six months of a large large predatory animal that moves great distances on the landscape that is not known if it went northeast west Salt and how many circles it did. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. Patrick Tate: Martin Like what about Panther Panther saying animals same animal and like a bit of trivia Guinness Book of World Records says the animal with the most names is in English alone they're supposedly 40 names for Mount lion. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. So give us a call now. Information that weed family automotive dot com sunny for today high temperatures low to mid 80s clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s tomorrow sunny highs in the upper 80s. Peter Biello: Hmm. Let's talk to Mike in Webster. But are there mountain lions living in New Hampshire? The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. You know I'm like seriously I can't get a picture of the thing but what it what it is. This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. We're not in the woods. So I know it's another unconfirmed report but you string enough of these together. I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. This is where things start breaking down when you so I get pictures with this great description and one of my favorite stories is a great description what the witness and then so I called the witness and wanted information from them and the person says What are you talking about. Right. The book MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN by Mark Elbroch has pictures of mountain lion scat found at a multiple beaver kill. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. What kind of animal is that. So I hate the idea that there's some sort of upward you know downward pressure from the bosses saying Don't you know don't tell about the mountain lions because it'll scare away the tourists. So if you were to ask me has a mountain lion ever passed through New Hampshire and been spotted by somebody who wasnt able to get hard evidence? Id personally be willing to say "probably, yes.". They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. We are the second most-forested state in the country, and those forests can be impenetrable snarls (part of why the Northeast is notoriously a difficult place to hunt deer), and while there are people in a lot of those woods, because the cats have been absent for a few generations now, most of those people dont know what a cougar scrape or latrine look and smell like. Share. You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. Can you look into this picture. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England.